Elki said:I think I should not be able to know
Reputation matters but it is the reputation of the character not of the person sitting behind the computer
I tend to agree. I think it would be weird getting a tell from a rando on my Enchanter asking me to group with my Cleric. If I wanted someone to know my alts I would tell them.
Plus, what if you have a bad rep with a character and are working to have a better rep with another character. Do you want people to always think you are a horrible person because of past behavior?
Interesting question and I am not sure I don't agree with the OP.
If someone steals my camps and harvests nodes while I am standing on them fighting mobs for them and does other bad things, I disagree with Elki. It is the *player* that is a douche not the character.
Let us see how the naming system winds up. They may well require that any character starts with two names, and have that identity unique for the whole game not just one server. If they do so and have the last name identical for all characters in the account (as in Neverwinter if I remember correctly) that will resolve this question.
I'm all for players being identified with an account-level ID.
They may well require that any character starts with two names, and have that identity unique for the whole game not just one server. If they do so and have the last name identical for all characters in the account (as in Neverwinter if I remember correctly) that will resolve this question.
Forcing players to have the same last name seems like a bad way to solve the problem. I'm not even a fan of requiring two names in the first place. I've played games where you have a character name and account name (separate from your login info). This works fine. You can message someone using their character name or account name.
But yea, as far as reputation being character based rather than player based, I agree it's BS. Nobody ever thinks to themselves, "Wow, that player character is a jerk but I have no opinion abou the person behind the keyboard". No, the guy playing the character is a jerk.
I'd like to see account names or have some way to see a players account name so if they are being jerks I know that I can avoid them. Be a jerk on one character I'm assuming you're a jerk full stop. It's pretty hard to get on my ignore list but when you're on there your staying on there.
Heebs said:Would it be possible for the chat logs to show someone's unique account name next to their character name? I also think it would be nice to be able to see someone's account name through some sort of inspect or who command / UI element. That way people can roll whatever alt they want with whatever name they want, but other folks can still tell who the person is behind the character. Just a thought. Thanks very much.
Perhaps someone who does ruin their reputation, by whatever means, decides they want to put that behind them and re-integrate into the community. Your proposal could severaly hamper those efforts. I would wager there are quite a few people who, when playing alts, actually act differently. They really become different people and want to be taken at face value. Then there are times where you log into an alt specifically because you want to lose that association with your main character, to set aside whatever responsibilities; relationships, etc of that character so you can have time time to yourself.
Sorry, but I would definitely not support account knowledge being known by other players. Learn to take the character at face value and decide if their actions (or inactions) in game merit you grouping with them.
Here's my suggestion:
When someone sends you a friend request, YOU have the OPTION of allowing them to friend your character, or friend your account. If you choose account, they will see something like character@account in their friends list, for any character you happen to be playing. YOU have the OPTION to alter this at any time.
I don't believe that someone's account identity should ever be shared involuntarily. I can understand the desire to want to blacklist people by account when they behave poorly but as Vandraad has pointed out, that leaves them with no chance to try and redeem themselves.
I understand many of you with the topic of causing pain to other players and at that point I am in agreement with you but I think that the question of a lot goes much further.
in the background it is a role-playing game I may interpret a necro and aga evil things in the game and but another time play with a paladin and follow the path of righteousness
it is possible that two relatives play in the same account and each one has his character should be judged one for what the other did
You may not have anything bad but be the worst pantheon healer but in turn be one of the best tank
the bad reputation of the heal dirty the tank or the tank improve the heal
you may have a character of max lvl very competitive and the people involved require you and you one day you just want to try an alternative low lvl to relax and you do not want to be disturbed asking for your high lvl character
if the person behind the character is an idiot and that is the problem you do not need your characters to be linked, he will behave with all his characters like an idiot
if the problem is that he plays normal with his main but then has a character to cause pain to other players to link all his characters in the account will not solve that because he will have that character in another account
I'm not going to pick one side or the other, because I can see good and bad points to each one.
Linking account to characters:
As others have pointed out, you can easily find friends you've already made as they play an alt and mabye your alt can join up and y'all level together again; this can be either good or bad depending on point of view, maybe you're open to regrouping with your friends and this makes the finding easy, or maybe you just want some annon alone time, that this would hinder.
Also, this could inhibit the ability of someone trying to reform from past stupidity, and always being judged on what they already did, rather than what they are trying to do. But this this could also help prevent, someone being deceptive and working up a good rep one on character, then using that to twink out an alt that they reserve for trolling/griefing, knowing their bad behavior won't follow them to their other character (already read some people's comments on here about imploring similar tactics).
Should be an OPTION to be friends with a character or account. I will share my account with real life friends and family. I do not want to give my account name to people I grouped with Once or twice.
if I decide to skip a Raid. I do not want my guild to know I am playing an alt and could be at the raid. (not that I would skip out a lot, but sometimes, you just aren't feeling it and still wanna play the game)
I get that reputation matters, but what if someone gets a bad name for doing one questionable thing and wants to start over and not have people insta-hate them.
Do it like Battlenet on WoW. Friend my character name unless i want you to know my entire account.
But. I get WHY people want to know who it is. and having to re purchase the game is harsh, but likely, well deserved. I won't hate knowing everyone by account over character.
Vandraad said:Heebs said:Would it be possible for the chat logs to show someone's unique account name next to their character name? I also think it would be nice to be able to see someone's account name through some sort of inspect or who command / UI element. That way people can roll whatever alt they want with whatever name they want, but other folks can still tell who the person is behind the character. Just a thought. Thanks very much.Perhaps someone who does ruin their reputation, by whatever means, decides they want to put that behind them and re-integrate into the community. Your proposal could severaly hamper those efforts. I would wager there are quite a few people who, when playing alts, actually act differently.
If someone ruined their reputation, they can work to build it back up over time. Apologize to the community and pay your dues. Giving players way to have anonmymity isn't necessary. If you've burned your reputation too much, there's always the option of starting a new account. All of this goes to having repercussions to your actions. I feel like people will be less inclined to act like a jerk if they know their reputation extends beyond a singular character. #communitymatters
They really become different people and want to be taken at face value. Then there are times where you log into an alt specifically because you want to lose that association with your main character, to set aside whatever responsibilities; relationships, etc of that character so you can have time time to yourself.
That's a fair point, but I think, overall, the pro's of having account level identification outweight the cons.
If someone ruins their reputation and wants to fix it they could always start a new account. That makes having a good reputation actually matter. If someone can just start an alt that's not much of a repercussion for poor behavior.
The way the game is being designed, if there aren't serious consequences for poor behavior then that type of behavior will run rampant.
I'd support such a system. Elder Scrolls Online does this iirc. It makes chat handles a bit unwieldy, but serves an interesting and important social role; like zoltar said: reputation is about the person behind the keyboard. I like dorotea's idea of using a permanent surname (or similar) created with an account rather than using your login ID. Better security, plus you could place restrictions on it to promote more context-appropriate choices. Could work with the progeny system too.
If someone is griefing or trolling or whatever, and then rolling alts and continuing to do it, VR should very easily be able to do the math and put that together as long as people are reporting them. There's no need to make people who roll alts for legitimate privacy reasons suffer for it.
ESO did this and you end up meeting someone on one toon then having to remember a whole nother handle. I didn't like it at all.
This will happen organically when you meet someone you will remember that name, then when you get to become friends you will know any alts or the ones they choose to share.
Also this is discussed elsewhere.
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/9391/account-reputation-rather-than-character-reputation/view/post_id/179429
Heebs said: Hey so straight to the point - can chat and/or the UI allow users to see which account a character belongs to? MMOs tend to be a genre where people like to roll alts (and of course those alts will have different names) and also a genre where reputation matters, and Pantheon obviously has a good bit of focus on the social aspect of the game - reputation matters. But suppose someone rolls an alt with a different name - unless they give away who they are, their reputation does not follow them. I've also found it confusing at times in MMOs when someone switches characters and I spend a minute or two trying to figure out who I am talking to. Would it be possible for the chat logs to show someone's unique account name next to their character name? I also think it would be nice to be able to see someone's account name through some sort of inspect or who command / UI element. That way people can roll whatever alt they want with whatever name they want, but other folks can still tell who the person is behind the character. Just a thought. Thanks very much.
Here is my take on it, yours may vary.
I want to know. Why do I want to know? Because I hold grudges. It takes quite a but to get on my bad side, but once you're there, you're there forever without some pretty serious atonement. I'm the same way in r/l. I hold grudges. I don't want some ****** being a jerk on one tune and being "nice guy" on the other and you not kowing who it is, because they will use the "I was roleplaying" excuse to try and explain away their behavior. Roleplaying is *NO* excuse for being an ******. You can roleplay a "bad guy" without being a complete tool.
Chanus said:If someone is griefing or trolling or whatever, and then rolling alts and continuing to do it, VR should very easily be able to do the math and put that together as long as people are reporting them. There's no need to make people who roll alts for legitimate privacy reasons suffer for it.
There will be numerous things that players do that will ruin their reputation but won't be against the ToS. Non-bannable offenses are the issue. Bannable offenses are easy to deal with. Expect bannable offenses to be fairly serious before action is taken. Your normal everyday training or camp stealing is going to be a much more common issue and usually won't be petition worthy.
Shai said: I like dorotea's idea of using a permanent surname (or similar) created with an account rather than using your login ID.
This is a false choice. I can't imagine any scenario where VR would make your login ID publically viewable. Honestly, you'll probably use your email for login anyway. So you can definitely have a unique, secure social ID without forcing people to use the same surname on all their characters.
I can see pro's to the idea, but I don't think it is a good idea overall to have a permanent tag associated with you that everyone can see all the time.
I am a firm believer that reputation matters, but I also think that if someone screws their reputation up they should have a way to fix their mistake. In some cases, their reputation may be too damaged to repair on their own, and creating a new character to start over might be the only option. Now, I know that most items are not planned to go through a NO TRADE like system, so this wouldn't do much to stop loot ninjas on its own. However, when you account the fact that the leveling process should be a long undertaking I think that having to create a new character once would be enough of a "punishment" to prevent the same behavior.
The second reason is that I find it bad is for streamers. Sometimes streamers want a little time to themselves away from their community. It is hard to be turned on all the time, and sometimes they just want a bit of "fresh air" and personal time for themselves. As someone who is working on starting a streaming career and is looking to stream Pantheon when it goes live; I don't want a mandatory tag that lets people know who I am on 24/7.
I understand that there're certain people who want their friends to know who they are on. I also understand that there are certain situations where this open line of communication makes things a lot easier. As such, I am not opposed to an optional feature like Blizzard's BattleNet application that allows players to friend people using their BattleNet ID. This Feature has made contacting people on raid days a lot easier in the past, as there have been occasions where people were playing other alts/ other games in the Blizzard franchise and there was no way to contact them through an in-game means alone. It has also made running and leading a guild a lot smoother in terms of guild leader and officer communication. I am not opposed to an optional system that functions in the same way. However, I am also the type of person who is like "If I want you to know or you need to know who I am playing, then I will let you know".
Baldur said: "If I want you to know or you need to know who I am playing, then I will let you know".
Agreed. Opt-in system (re: Nephele’s suggestion) would be terrific.
Heebs said: Hey so straight to the point - can chat and/or the UI allow users to see which account a character belongs to? MMOs tend to be a genre where people like to roll alts (and of course those alts will have different names) and also a genre where reputation matters, and Pantheon obviously has a good bit of focus on the social aspect of the game - reputation matters. But suppose someone rolls an alt with a different name - unless they give away who they are, their reputation does not follow them. I've also found it confusing at times in MMOs when someone switches characters and I spend a minute or two trying to figure out who I am talking to. Would it be possible for the chat logs to show someone's unique account name next to their character name? I also think it would be nice to be able to see someone's account name through some sort of inspect or who command / UI element. That way people can roll whatever alt they want with whatever name they want, but other folks can still tell who the person is behind the character. Just a thought. Thanks very much.
Would definately love for anything to attach the account to the player, that by itself could prevent players from doing things that could hurt their repuation, especially a player like me, I want to be a good community type player and if their is something to have my character all linked it would keep menon the straight and narrow simply because I want to help people, and have interesting chats with people and be wanted in grp because they know I am a cool person to be around.